Spotify’s Head of Dance and Electronic Development, Ronny Ho, on the future of the genre & platform

Global music streaming giant Spotify has, in the last week, released its ‘Turn Up Aus Global Impact Report’, examining how Australian music is performing among international Spotify listeners.

Within the report, the company, which bases its data on its own listeners, has shared a number of key learnings about Australian music. Perhaps most notably for Mixmag ANZ readers, dance and electronic music is now Australia’s biggest export.

Taking a look at the artists and feature artists that make up the top 30 Australian songs played across the last year, these include: The Kid LAROI at number one, Sia in collaboration with David Guetta, Dom Dolla, Dean Lewis, Troye Sivan’s feature on a Dua Lipa song, Adriatique’s remix of RÜFÜS DU SOL, CYRIL, Odd Mob’s collaboration with Tiësto, and Dom Dolla’s collaboration with Kid Cudi.

As part of the rollout of the report, a number of Spotify’s Global Editorial staff were flown to Australia to conduct interviews and discuss the report’s findings at an in-person event on Wednesday, July 9.

Not mentioned at the event, though very present in current news about Spotify, was Spotify CEO Daniel Ek’s recent $1 billion AUD investment in an AI military start-up and his appointment as chairman of that same start-up. That investment has been reported on across the globe, everywhere from the Financial Times to one of YouTube’s biggest and most influential voices in music, Anthony Fantano.

The move has seen artists, labels and fans withdrawing from the platform in protest, the last straw for many who already had problems with how Spotify values the work of artists featured on its platform.

At Spotify’s event, mention of AI was made upfront, although not in the context of military technology, and without any mention of its CEO. Spotify’s Global Head of Editorial, Sulinna Ong, started her conversation by saying, “(AI is) not a topic any of you want to hear about.” In justifying Spotify’s growing understanding of AI and its use in playlisting specifically, she later made a point that “there are humans at Spotify.”

Mixmag ANZ was offered an opportunity to interview one of those visiting editors, the Global Editorial Head of Dance & Electronic, Ronny Ho, the day before the event, Tuesday, July 8.

At such a pivotal moment for dance, both commercially and culturally, Mixmag ANZ’s questions aimed to gain a deeper understanding of how accurately Spotify reflects the interests of the dance and electronic music community.

We have provided our interview with Ronny in full below.

RONNY HO: I think from a dance music perspective, there are two takeaways for me, which I have been harping on for quite some time.

One, I think it highlights a lot of new names in our world. I think for a few years, we were seeing the same names recycled and kind of people feeling like, dance music is just a certain sound. And then this list really hits home on how there's not only emerging artists, but we're in the dance space, but also that it covers such a wide range of sub-genres.

So this is personally very exciting, and I wish that this was something that the world could see. So I'm excited for tomorrow.

RONNY HO: We're definitely seeing a rise in Australian names that are touring overseas and covering a lot of lineups across the festivals. I'm seeing Australian names have residencies in Ibiza, Europe, things like that, which I find extremely exciting.

So yeah, I think it's as the world globalises and people get more interested in dance electronic music, you're seeing Australia at the forefront of a lot of what's happening. So definitely just in terms of markets or…

RONNY HO: I have some anecdotal thoughts, and we'll probably have to pull some data points for you on it specifically, but I feel that it's definitely something we're seeing people listen community-wise, once you might seem like it actually might mean 20 people are listening to a song.

It's definitely soundtracking a lot of parties that are happening, and the past couple of years it's completely blown up during the summertime. I know it's winter in Australia, but we're seeing some of our biggest summer lists completely just hit it out of the ballpark when it comes to time. Whether it's, poolside or a weekend party or something like that, it's been something that has definitely been growing year-over-year.

Marketwise, I'm very familiar with the US, and we're seeing dance music continue to grow there. But what I think is extremely exciting is Latin America, the Middle East, Northern Africa and we're seeing some growth in the listenership of dance music in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Afro House was one of the biggest subgenres last year, and we can see that propagate into this year, and we are really keen on making sure that we highlight artists from the continent to the success that we're seeing globally for Afro House. So, yeah, it's been really fun.

RONNY HO: Yeah, we're definitely seeing the US as one of the biggest export markets for Australian dance music right now.

Definitely a lot of artists who are touring for the first time are selling out venues, which is extremely exciting. I think what resonates is that sonically, like, Australian dance music is really fun. It's dynamic. It's diverse.

I was just listening to a playlist just of Australian dance music and there's this kind of bounce that you feel throughout all it, commercial, whether it's underground there's just something there that feels very sonically groovy and fun and you just want to keep listening.

So, I think that's been something that a lot of Americans are interested in, something that's authentic, something that's a little bit different and kind of just fun and gets our minds off of the other things that are happening in the country. So, I think that's what's really resonating for us, and I've been to a lot of the shows in the US and people, they're free, they're dancing, they're having a good time, and I think that's all we really want.

RONNY HO: Yeah, I think that's something that we ask ourselves every day. I'm sure Mixmag is as well.

What was originally from the underground becomes mainstream, and then when does that become cool or not cool or whatever? And a lot of experts in the space, they keep it close to the heart on what they consider underground and what's authentic, and we want to kind of maintain that as well. But I think the success of artists like a FISHER or a Dom Dolla always allows audiences and fans to dig a little bit deeper. Rarely do you have people discover music from the underground first, I think that it piques the interest and then they start to dig a little bit deeper.

And I think that's a good thing for the underground scene as long as we make sure that we're nurturing and supporting the artists that are ultimately the ones taking the risks, and I think that's really important.

I know, we're Spotify, so sometimes it's hard to really support that space, but we built out our Track IDs program a few years ago in the pandemic when a lot of artists couldn't even go on tour.

Really, we wanted to allow it to speak authentically to the underground space. Whether it was in Berlin, whether it was in Melbourne, or whether it was in Johannesburg, there's just so much happening that was exciting and interesting, and these communities were being built. So Track IDs really gives the keys of curation to underground artists - like RONA, Pretty Girl, [artists] like that. It's also helped me discover a lot of music by listening to their playlist because I'm not on the ground there.

RONNY HO: Yeah, definitely. This is probably not Australia-specific, but Charli XCX is the prime example of that. We're seeing pop listeners getting really into club music. What does it mean to go out and listen to music and not always have your phone out? I've been to shows on both sides of pop and dance. I think a lot of folks who are used to just going to a pop show are very curious about what it's like to experience music in that live setting. So yeah, definitely seeing a lot of crossover between pop listeners getting interested in dance music, which has been really fun for me.

RONNY HO: Yeah, that's a good question.

There are a few ways that you can definitely get supported. I think one is being authentic to yourself. I think as we look at our fans and how people are listening to music, one of the kinds of through lines that we're seeing is that people want authenticity in terms of the way that they listen to music and who this artist is. So that could be pop, it could be dance, it doesn't matter what the genre is. That's where we've seen long-term career success is people being authentic and being able to tell their stories. So Spotify has been building a lot of tools to help support that beyond just, having an artist page and just being added to a playlist.

We're adding tools like ‘Countdown To’, which are countdown pages that allow people to drive to their album before it gets launched. There are these artist clips [where] you actually can show your face and talk about the music - content that I've been wanting personally for myself as well. And things like that really hand the keys back to the artist, so they can build out their marketing plan or whatever that is. But ultimately, you want to drive that connection with your fans. We see that and we see that fandom is what is really helping build out artists’ careers, so I think that's really, really key across the board.

RONNY HO: I don't know what the long-term plan is, but I think a lot of the current requests that we're getting from artists are that they want to be able to tell their stories. They want more places where they can explain where things are coming from instead of that one-dimensional listening experience.

RONNY HO: This is an interesting one.

Yeah, I would say it's interesting because it's the most global genre, so it's hard to pinpoint exactly where things are stemming from. I don't think you see this as much with Australia, but just the rise of Afro House and Latin House, definitely a lot of influences that are coming from Latin America and Sub-Saharan Africa, and those are songs that would work regardless of where it is in the world.

So I'm seeing a lot more of those vibes coming in. It's hard to ignore the UK. Drum and bass obviously is a force. Also a genre that's getting popified, which is funny, but awesome I would say. UKG, Speed Garage, I guess what the kids are calling it, is another one that's definitely being seen across the board. And then techno, just faster BPM. A lot of those sonics are working, and the kids are ravenous, and they love it. They love that club feeling.

So, I can't tell you exactly which market that's coming from just because a lot of the artists that are creating that music are borderless. They're all connected whether they're from Europe or whether they're from… Japan, Australia.

So, I think just that kind of global connection that the genre has, we're just seeing influences come in and out throughout all the markets.

RONNY HO: Yeah. I think that's also a question that we ask ourselves and I ask a lot of artists: ‘When are you thinking about an album? How are you thinking about what that sounds like and what that is sonically?’

A lot of artists are producing music the way that they think about curating a set. So a lot of it is still singles driven, which I think works positively for us on the platform but definitely seeing a lot of consumption from the fan base via playlists.

A lot of fans make their own playlists. A lot of dance music fans I feel like, also potentially want to be DJs themselves, or they're the ones who always have the AUX cord in the friend group, so I think a lot of folks consume music that way and that's how they share music.

We also see a lot of success, and this is also why Track IDs was born, through the playlist. A lot of artists are also putting on sets that they have had that are massive or successful, or tracks that are coming from their own label in their own artist playlist. So we see it being consumed that way.

But yeah, definitely that continues to be the main way that we're seeing people consume it on platform but I'm also watching what's happening in the live scene, what's happening on YouTube, what's happening on all the social media platforms, just to better gauge what's working in the live world when I'm not physically there.

RONNY HO: So we have an out 100% algorithmic listening experience whether it's the Discover Weekly, Release Radar, all curated for the user which is exciting because a lot of folks feel seen. When the algorithm can tell them what they like, and they agree to it, and they discover someone really exciting. We on the editorial team have editorial playlists. So there's still a human touch across the platform when it comes to music discovery. We'll continue to invest in that. We're still investing in that quite heavily now that we see that algorithms are evolving, and we are becoming more and more a part of that and providing a human touch across every single aspect across the platform. So I think that's exciting.

I think even a lot of fans, despite what they think, like to be told what's cool and what to listen to, because there's so much music out there now. We've seen, time and time again, every test that we do is that when there's a human touch to it, it always performs better and the fans are engaging. I think that's what keeps this a little bit more exciting, and it lets us take risks when we want to.

RONNY HO: Yeah, I also want to know to be honest.

I've been grappling with it personally myself, just because everything's evolving so quickly. We are also currently learning as much as we can about what this case study can provide because we're not sure yet, and I think that's something that's good, but we also want to make sure that we are leaders in the space.

So, right now, we don't have a specific answer to that, but definitely something that is, like you said, top of mind and in conversations that we're having a lot of internally. I think specifically for dance music, it's especially interesting just because we've always been one of the genres on the forefront of technology.

So, I'm curious on how it's impacting and how people are feeling about it, just because it's coming and we'd rather be ahead than kind of trying to catch up with it.

RONNY HO: I guess the closest thing I have on that right now is potentially Fresh Finds, one of our programs that really supports emerging indie acts, and we've seen that continue to grow year-over-year. It's expanded beyond genre now. We've expanded to market-specific ‘Fresh’, versus just genre, but I think this kind of indie effort in supporting artists continues to be of interest for all of our users. We just celebrated 10 years of Fresh Finds, and in 2024 we found out that we drove more than 65 million artist discoveries.

We've hosted a few Fresh Finds kind of showcases with artists that are local to a specific market or specific city or genre, and the fans are ravenous for it. So, I think that's been really fun for us to see on the dance music specific side, just seeing a lot more independent labels put on showcases and really driving community and storytelling around why they even exist and who the artists they're supporting are. And I think that's been something that has continued to succeed. And what we're also seeing, Track ID's push not just an intentional part of it, but has been something that continues to resonate with those types of listeners.

So we want to build out spaces that really support communities because, I don't know, that's the one that makes me want to come to work every day.

RONNY HO: Yeah, that's a good question and… I don't have an answer to that, unfortunately. I wish I did, but we don't really kind of comment on our CEO's personal investments right now, but I understand where it's coming from.

RONNY HO: I don't have any statements.

RONNY HO: Yeah, I mean, I want to go to more shows while I'm here,just to experience some of the things I've seen online.

I think there's been something that I feel is really genuine and thoughtful, and I want a lot of other markets to learn from [this kind of] very supportive industry. When I meet someone from Australia or attend a show by an Australian artist, they're always talking to me about other Australian artists that I should know, and it doesn't have to be on their roster or anything like that. I just feel like there's such a genuine support of one another that I think has really helped catapult the growth that we're seeing over the past couple of years, and I think that investment is going to continue to support Australian dance music in the next few years, and I want more of that and I want to see a lot more diversity and women growing.

I want to see more people of colour, Indigenous people, that I know is very important in Australia, and I think those stories should be told across the board [around] the world. So yeah, I think that as we invest in Australian dance music, we make sure that we pull everyone up alongside it and I think that's what makes this genre so special.

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Mixmag ANZ ran out of time to ask these questions in our allotted time slot, and so followed up with these via email.

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RONNY HO: At Spotify, we are invested in uplifting artists of all sizes. We've created programs such as Fresh Finds and RADAR to support how artists are being discovered, consumed and celebrated globally. I alluded to this earlier, but Fresh Finds has become a global program that we continue to invest in. We are currently celebrating our 10-year anniversary of the program.

Some stats: In 2024 alone, more than 18,000 artists from 127 countries were featured, demonstrating Fresh Finds’ global reach.

In 2024, Fresh Finds drove more than 65 million artist discoveries, underscoring the playlists’ effectiveness in connecting listeners with fresh, independent sounds.

RONNY HO: I can't speak to other platforms. However, when it comes to revenue paid to rightsholders, I'd point you in the direction of our yearly Loud & Clear report into streaming economics. Some stats below:

• In 2024, royalties generated by Australian artists from Spotify reached over 300M AUD, up 14% since 2023.
• Royalties generated by Australian artists from Spotify in 2024 are almost three times those generated in 2017.
• In 2024, more than half of all royalties generated by Australian artists on Spotify in 2024 were by independent artists or labels.
• In 2024, Australian artists were discovered by first-time listeners around 2.8 billion times.

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Jack Colquhoun is Mixmag ANZ's Managing Editor, find him on Instagram.