INTERVIEWS
AGONY is not a genre; it’s a feeling
The Gadigal Land/Sydney-based duo’s debut record arrives after many years in the shop; an expertly crafted journey through the mind & body of a local pop star.
The idea of a pop star is one inseparable from the term itself. Though so many people from all over the world have earned the title from different cultural, musical, and economic backgrounds, its use carries a kind of onomatopoeia that few others can.
But pop is increasingly not just one sound.
Without diving too deeply into the oft-repeated conversations on dance and electronic music’s resurgence in mid-2020s pop music, it’s safe to say that the pop conversation is one that’s opened itself up in more ways than ever before in recent years. With that kind of accessibility, pop is increasingly less about being popular and more about embodying a carefree, catchy, or emotional attitude that can be dismissed by more ‘serious’ musical realms.
The idea of a ‘local’ pop star is an example of such an attitude, not tied to success, but a mindset and creative process.
Gadigal Land/Sydney-based duo agonyintl, made up of Christian Whitwell and Luca Bianchino, are artists with that approach at the core of their debut record ‘BULL’, released just a few weeks ago. Fitting all manner of genre descriptions, from emo-dance to indie-sleaze, electro and dance-pop, agonyintl’s album, the product of many years of collaboration between the two, is a comfortable embrace and push against them all.
The clash of the sounds, moods, and tropes of these genres and many others into a new, supercharged musical Voltron embodies the pop and punk ethos of music for music’s sake, and little more. A playfully tongue-in-cheek skit opens the record, with agonyintl’s manager begging them to hurry to a show which has already started. Their car revs, and an explosion of grinding electro bass lines and gritty, self-aware lyrics are met with moments of uplifting trance and solemn piano lines.
In many ways, it’s an ode to the creation of music itself, made by two friends who owe so much to each other, with us as their witness.
Q: Christian & Luca, thanks so much for your time. I thought to start, it’d be worth addressing just how long you two have been in each other’s lives. From what I understand, it’s a long, long time. When and where did you first meet & how has your collaborative relationship been shaped by that history?
L: Forever. We first met playing soccer together when we were kids, lost touch during high school, then met again while working at the same store and realised we both make music. It feels like fate to me.
C: We first met playing soccer! I think we were about 12 years old or around that age. We met again years later, coincidentally, while working our first job together at a cafe. I remember we would link up on our lunch breaks at work to talk about making music, which quickly developed into bringing our computers to work to make beats together, and then going to each other’s houses to make music. I think having known each other for a long time is really special, and makes us very comfortable sharing ideas and being honest with each other. On my birthday last year, Luca gave me a poster he designed with the words ‘WITH YOU IT’S DIFFERENT, WITH YOU I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT’ and I think that sums up our relationship perfectly.
Q: What does that kind of experience do when you approach a new creative work together?
C: It’s funny now that I think about it, making music on our breaks felt really frantic because we’d only have about 30 minutes, so I think a lot of our practice is doing things in really frantic bursts of time. If it’s not hitting after that, then move on to the next idea. The side effect of this is that we have about 100 unreleased songs sitting in a private playlist on my SoundCloud, and probably more on our computers.
L: I can approach Chris with any musical idea or concept I’m excited about, and he’s instantly on the laptop cooking or already was thinking the same; I’m always in awe. We’ve spent so long experimenting with different sounds and genres over the years that it’s really fluid to get on the same emotional level we need for new creative work.
Q: It’s crazy to me that ‘BULL’ is your debut record, considering that. What made this album feel like the right one to release as your first as agonyintl?
C: This has definitely felt like our most cohesive body of work. We really locked in on this idea of ‘BULL’, the sound and the imagery early. Also, trying these songs out live so much over the last couple of years has really made us want to carve out a space for this sound.
Q: The agonyintl project itself has a lot of history, too. How has that changed as you both have?
L: For me, agonyintl marked a point where I was finally ready to be more public with my music. Stopped caring what people thought and actually just put down what feels good to put down, what feels right or from the heart. We’ve gained more confidence in songwriting, producing, and performing, and, in turn, in expressing everything we never thought we could do.
C: It changes with us! Another thing that’s really special about agonyintl is how our interests change together. We always seem to be getting into similar things all the time: music, movies, even the jobs we work seem to be random yet similar to each other. And that definitely shapes our sound and what we want out of the project.
Q: What does the title 'BULL' actually refer to, and when did it become the name of the record?
C: We did this photoshoot with our friend Billy Zammit ages ago, and at the end of the shoot, Luca was like ‘I have this idea that I need us all to do right now’ and so he basically directed this really specific photo of him and me holding these ropes that were pulled tight. At the time I had literally no idea what he was thinking, but then that night he sent me this insane photo, which is now the cover art for ‘BULL’. For me, the title refers to the idea of wrestling with something strong, whether that’s physical or mental, within yourself. Also, the album itself was written during and about a really intense, chaotic, fun, and dark period of my life, and when I look back on that time, it’s full of fond memories but also feels a bit like wrestling a bull, haha.
L: The bull is aggressive, challenging, a symbol of strength, but also ritualistically tormented. ‘BULL’ is the becoming of what we are from when we first started and where we’ve been. Through to the end result.
Q: The record is, among other things, a kind of tongue-in-cheek take on being a local pop star. Was that kind of indie sleaze sentiment something you set out to do?
L: At first we knew we wanted to do an album but didn’t know exactly what was going to be the overarching feeling. We knew we wanted instantaneous buzz, and songs like ‘Vogue Mag’ and ‘Never Die’ opened up the doors to exploring the sound and finding bridges between sleaze and pop that make up other tracks on the record.
C: It definitely became that as we kept writing the album and performing. The world doesn’t want you to be a pop star, but if you want to be one, you should just go out and be one.
Q: There’s a real adoration of Sydney that comes through on the album. References to your collaborators and friends are aplenty. I’d love to know: how do you think this record reflects your home?
C: A lot of it for me is feeling stranded in Sydney in some ways. Like ‘island’ was originally about being stuck on this island country and feeling isolated from the rest of the world. In other ways I love my friends here; in my world we are all on the stage together.
Q: There's a horniness and carelessness to some of the record that more "serious" club music tends to scrub out. Was that tone a conscious reaction to anything you were hearing around you?
L: I mean, why would you want to dance to something overly serious? People can be too shy and so indirect in their lyrics sometimes that we often find ourselves wanting to be sincere, clear, and catchy.
Q: Indie sleaze as an aesthetic is having a real moment again. Do you think of yourselves as reviving something, or is that comparison more of a lazy shorthand people reach for?
L: When you’re making alternative music, there’s a need for something to help place the sound and trends tend to do that job. I’d say this record leans more towards indie sleaze, sonically and in attitude. But when you listen to it as a whole, you hear more influences from multiple things that make up our identity; we don’t like to be tethered to one thing. Our music doesn’t work like that. Did I mention I’m a Libra?
C: I think we’re doing our own thing. Indie sleeze in the 2000s has some incredible dance and punk music. My older brother introduced me to so much of this music when we were growing up together, and he is basically the reason I started making music. I can’t overlook that when I talk about this album, because we’re making music that definitely nods to this era. But I also know we’re on our own path. Luca and I have always been really genre-phobic; we never really want to be any of the genres people associate us with. So now for genre-related questions we just say ‘it’s agony’.
Q: Both of you have a history of making quite introspective, often dark music. Christian, you in particular, were really at the forefront of some incredibly brooding electronic music as Grasps. How does it feel making something so much brighter? Why the shift?
C: Thank you! I think it’s important for me to have both. My music as Grasps is very personal and hard to let go of; I can’t listen to much of it because it takes me back to places that weren’t very good in my head. The music I make with Luca in agonyintl is the opposite; I listen to feel good, to remind myself that it ain’t all bad. I can put on braveness, like a bulletproof jacket to the world.
Q: Given you’re already both so experienced as producers, is there anything you leave at the door when you collaborate, or is it all in?
C: One thing we always need to remind ourselves is to simplify. We tend to go maximal in song ideas and then cut back til we get to the bones, and that’s the song. Less fancy and more hitting.
Q: As such good friends, sitting on a record for so long, there’s a clear shirking of the usual kind of “hype” that album rollouts often have. Is that a conscious decision on your part?
L: An album is like a baby, and I guess we’re trad parents. We could post like crazy and put its face all over social media, but seeing a bunch of posters pasted all over the city feels more like a part of the album’s life. I think the way we’re approaching the rollout feels less about the initial hype and more about what comes after.
